Exploring the Intersection of Improv and Human Design with Jamie Clark (6/2 Emotional Manifestor)

[00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode
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Kyle Wood: Welcome listeners, back to well designed. Uh, my name is Kyle Wood. Uh, of your hosts. With me is my co-host Brandy,

[00:00:50] Introducing today's guest, Jamie Clark
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Kyle Wood: and today we have a special guest, Jamie Clark. So Jamie is a, as a background in improv, which is kind of how we . We first met her, which would be over a year ago now.

Uh, but we also know Jamie because we studied human design together. And so the three of us have been going on this journey into like human design and how do we bring this into kind of what we already do. Uh, so Jamie's company is called Intentional Improv and she works, um, with people as . I'm gonna just quote her back here, around, uh, inner child work, um, and specifically towards overcoming their fear of public speaking, which is, is that the, is that that cliche thing as like the number one fear or the number two fear, Jamie?

Is that right?

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

80% of people have some level of fear. Public speaking.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. It's, um,

yeah, I understand that and, and I, I'm excited to ask you questions about that today.

Jamie Clark: you're like, I'm in that 80%.

Kyle Wood: Um, she, so yeah, she looks at, she works with clients to look at their limitations around this stuff and the somatics, which I thought was really interesting, and I'm curious to learn more about that. And then with a human design background, she's able to weave that into that as well by understanding people's charts and types.

Um, so yeah, this is, this is gonna be fun and we can't wait to pick your brain. And you're also a manifester, which you're our first manifester guest. So also would love to pick your brain about how that shows up for you in your life and Yeah, welcome to the show.

Jamie Clark: Thank you so much. Happy to be here. And yeah, please, any questions that you have about the Manifester experience, the work that I do in the world would love to talk.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: I can't believe it's been

a year

It has been.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Um,

Brandi Healy: Longer. It's been

like

Jamie Clark: it been

two?

Kyle Wood: I.

Jamie Clark: Wow.

Brandi Healy: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: So the,

Jamie Clark: that.

[00:02:57] Is it true that Manifestor's don't like being asked questions?
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Kyle Wood: the first question I have for you and it, it makes sense 'cause we're about to ask you questions, is there's this, there's this thing around manifesters where as a type in general broad strokes that they don't like being asked questions.

Um, and I've just

have

Brandi Healy: or false,

Kyle Wood: curious about, 'cause as a projector.

I, I really like being asked questions 'cause I, you know, really want my opinion and stuff like that. So how does that show up for, for you? Because obviously you can't go through life ,

hating people asking questions. Or maybe you can, I

Brandi Healy: You could,

Kyle Wood: could, but I, but knowing

Brandi Healy: could

Kyle Wood: you are, I've asked you questions before Jamie.

You're always very open to it and give very insightful answers. So how does that actually, that part of being a manifesto actually show up for you?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally. And it really just depends on the question And also the time and place,

right? So something,

and I, I,

am a big proponent of asking

manifesters questions in certain ways when they're ready to be asked something, right? And so what happens, uh, a question. So say you ask a question of somebody that is a generator or a manifesting generator or a projector. We'll start with manifester manifesting generators and generators. They often get a sacral response. Their body lights up, they're like, Uhhuh, I like that. Or, oh no, I don't like that. But from an undefined sacral perspective, manifesters don't get that. And projectors don't either. But you're that. That's a whole nother thing that y'all can speak to. But for me, when somebody asks me a question that I don't want to answer, there's almost this immediate block like If somebody asks me a yes or no question or asks me what I wanna be doing, I, I could give you a thousand answers, right? And so it's been really helpful in this shift for me is if somebody says, Hey, I'm curious about la, la la la, la, I'm curious about what you're doing. I'm curious about intentional improv.

I traveled in a camper van for

years,

and if they say, I'm curious about

your van travels, then that puts the ball in my court. If I wanna respond or not, where if somebody's like, do you like traveling in a van? Or do you want, do you know what I mean? Like, or are you going to Denver next month?

Or do you want to do this? Or Tell me about this. There's almost this hesitancy to to answer because it doesn't feel like it's on my terms.

Kyle Wood: No, that's really

Jamie Clark: And so I love this and what I wanna say, because we are on a podcast and people ask me questions all the time on podcasts and all these places, I, I'm willingly here. I want to answer

questions. And so I, I

typically, if

somebody asks me something that I don't wanna respond

to, I just change the subject. Or I just don't answer, right?

Like, I just don't, I'm like, I don't have an ans I'll just say like, I don't have an answer for that

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and then I'll share what I wanna share

anyways.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. I like that. That's cool. That's helpful. So yeah, it's the way, yeah, the way people ask you the questions and the topic. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, it's like, I don't like small talk. Don't ask me how I'm doing today. I think we've ranted about this another.

It's the worst question you can ask me,

Unless

you .

Brandi Healy: you can. You're good. Yeah. It's like how much time do you have?

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Well, in asking,

answering

that, honestly, if somebody

asks you how they are, if they genuinely wanna know, I wanna know.

But I don't ask many people that

question,

Kyle Wood: Yeah. Yes. Same. I, I will. Yeah. Because for the same reason. It's like, well, I, I genuinely, I'm not just saying that as a, a, what would you call it?

Some sort of

Brandi Healy: A filler.

Kyle Wood: filler. Yeah. Or like, you know, like a nicety, that that's how we should talk

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: I was up in New England recently, uh, running or co-leading a retreat where I was doing improv and reading human design. And it was fascinating. It was a bunch of ex-military men and women

and so Right. So not necessarily

a group that you

would imagine would be into

improv and human design, but it was incredible and I've done a lot of work with, um, People that have been in the military, but he reframed this. We were talking about small talk and he said The reason why we have small talk is that people aren't necessarily designed to see so many people in one day.

I. Right. And so if you think about

how

tribes used to be, or smaller

communities,

you knew every single person in

the tribe.

You knew everybody is surrounding you,

and so

you're able to have deeper

conversations more quickly. But in today's society, we don't know everyone at the grocery store. We don't know everybody in restaurants. And so we have these very high level, quick like, how are you? Oh,

I'm good. How are you to just

indicate to people that I'm safe. I'm not a threat.

I hope that you're Well, without getting into

the nitty gritty,

Kyle Wood: yes. That makes a

Jamie Clark: his design was amazing. it was so cool to look at his design. I was like, that is such an interesting thing. It's such a tribal thing that happens of, oh, we're not really meant, we're not designed to be working with thousands of people every day.

So we use, how are you? As

just this

very surface level question to move

through life.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Brandi Healy: Yeah, for

sure.

Jamie, how did you,

oh, go ahead, Kyle.

Kyle Wood: Yeah, I was just gonna make a comment. Or like when, you know, I go to the city, it's not even that like people just don't even acknowledge each other because I guess, yeah, you would just get fatigued. And I always find, and it's how when I live here, I always know when someone's from the city or not. 'cause if they're local, they'll nod, smile, say GA.

Yeah, if they're not local, it's like it's not even on their radar that I should, that they should interact with that other human being that's passing them, which I always judge them

for, but I will judge them less now. , you're just fatigued,

you're just.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, you're just.

Kyle Wood: in a day. You're not designed for this.

It's not your fault.

Brandi Healy: you. Yes. It's not, yes, you Have compassion.

Have compassion. They're just overstimulated

and that's why they're coming to your

small

town is to unplug.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

So at the

Brandi Healy: Yes. And maybe,

Kyle Wood: saying hello to everyone. Yeah.

Brandi Healy: yes, exactly. Just in time to go get dysregulated back

in the city. Jamie, I'm really curious.

[00:09:32] How does a Manifestor end up in improv?
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Brandi Healy: How did you get started in improv?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally. So I have to say, first of all, when people hear improv or improv comedy, people either love it or they run for the hills and they're terrified.

Right.

And so if you had talked to middle school, Jamie, or high school Cha Jamie, or even early twenties, Jamie, I would've said Absolutely not. I'm never gonna improvise.

You think I'm gonna get on a stage and try and make people laugh for an hour and a half? I can't speak in, in class, like in college classes, I would clam up. I would be the shy kid. I wouldn't speak.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: I moved out to Reno, Nevada in my early twenties with a amazing company. I was help building out a sales floor. And it was fun. But all of my coworkers, it was great to interact with them. And we had, I formed amazing relationships, but as you work with somebody, you naturally always talk about work, right?

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so I was like, I'm looking for something else. I want community. I wanna hobby outside of it. Like imagine, you know, early twenties, you're looking for something outside of what we do all day long in our careers. And so. At the time I was super into the show called Broad City. Did either of you watch it?

Brandi Healy: Mm

Jamie Clark: No. Okay. That's okay. What about, what about parks and rec?

Parks and recreation?

Kyle Wood: I've watched it. Don't ask, Brandy doesn't work. Don't ask Brandy if

Jamie Clark: Okay.

Kyle Wood: shows. I've watched a

Brandi Healy: Don't ask me anything. I don't watch Yeah. I

I hardly watch any television. I'm the worst.

Jamie Clark: All good. All good. So it's this, it's very similar. It's just this like, I don't know, how would you describe it, Kyle? It's like a, a show about a, an office with like different, and she

like the main characters and politics and the government and like, it's very funny. All these things. I was super into it and many of the people on that show were improvisers.

And then on Broad City

I learned

that it's like sketch comedy

and very funny and very like very, very, very smart humor. And I just remember thinking like, wow, this is so cool. And then started looking into it and it was improv.

And I was like, shit, this is

terrifying to

me. This is so scary. I don't wanna do this.

This is like, it's like I can feel my heart starting to beat and like my chest getting tight right now, just thinking about this 21-year-old version of myself that was so shy. But this thing that I was like being called towards was making people laugh and having authentic connections with people and not knowing what you were gonna say. And so I looked up a class. I had a couple beers before I looked up the class. I don't drink anymore, but I just was like, okay, maybe I'll take this, maybe I'll take it. And signed up and then went to a level one. Didn't tell anybody I was doing it. It was in the basement of another theater and art space.

It was just a really small, like their web, like we didn't, I didn't know anything about it. Um. It just spiraled from there. Like, I had so much fun. My first class, I was like, oh, this is just playing make believe with my friends and just playing games and like learning how to be creative again. And it was terrifying.

I mean, I had a beer before every single class, like every single class. Like I did not, and like, again, I don't drink anymore really, but like I, it was this like fear and I'm sure you two can relate to this, where you're like, Ooh, this is so fun. I wanna do this,

but I'm terrified.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Right,

Jamie Clark: And so it just, it's, I mean, it

just spiraled from there.

It took off

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: intensely. I have one level,

one level, one class turned into another one, and

then, uh, we got out of the basement theater and all of us ended up like we gutted this old t-shirt shop.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: Like in the middle of the city and turned it into an improv theater and started doing classes and shows and all this stuff.

And then that it just, I mean, the rest is history.

It just completely spiraled from

there.

Brandi Healy: So then my

Kyle, unless you have another question, I have a part two of this

question.

Kyle Wood: you go. No, go. Go for it.

Brandi Healy: So then my second part of this question then is, okay, so we've discovered improv.

[00:13:53] How did Jamie first discover Human Design?
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Brandi Healy: How did you find out about human design? And then there's a part three and I'm sure you can guess what that is, but we'll, we'll just go with it.

We'll just go with it.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, so how did I discover human design? Oh, I was at a retreat. I. in Austin, Texas. I had been, I had started to do inner child work, which is the second half of my company. Intentional improv. That's the intentional side of it, right? Where you're digging into beliefs that aren't serving you. Uh, really re-parenting yourself and essentially living the life that the 7-year-old version would love. Right? So I was in Austin. I was at this retreat and I met this woman who was a doula.

So she, she's like a birth practitioner and she does human design as well.

And I heard it and thought, huh?

Like, what's that?

And she said, it's cool. Like look it up.

She didn't tell me much about it. She's a projector, which is funny. Um,

and so later on

I'm at the airport and I'm like.

Hungover I was still drinking at that point. And like we had, like me and my partner at the time, I swear I don't drink now, but it keeps coming up Um, but anyway, I was just like, it was like a weekend of partying. It was so much fun. Um, I had known all these people from inner child work and like. I pulled up my chart on my phone and I was like, manifester, okay, whatever. And I looked up an article and the first thing that I read about myself said that I had a closed and repelling aura. That I was angry all the time and I was destined to lead a lonely life. And that people hated me.

Brandi Healy: So you immediately loved it.

Jamie Clark: Exactly.

Brandi Healy: I'm hearing.

Jamie Clark: I was like this.

Brandi Healy: Yeah. So you felt so deeply seen as so many say

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly. I was like, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. So obviously like slammed my phone shut and was like, screw this. This is so dumb. I don't like it.

Whatever.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: And forgot about it.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: six months later,

really, I was going through a tough time. At that time I was really out of alignment, right?

I was partying and all these things, and I just learned about human design and inner child work, and was starting that journey of like, corporate's great and corporate's fine, and I'm doing well for myself, but this isn't actually what I wanna be doing. And so I was, I was deeply out of alignment when I found it, and it so it makes sense that I was angry.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Mm.

Jamie Clark: Right.

And

then

six months later

had, you know, started to let go of

things that weren't serving me, was in a healthier spot. Um, it came up again at another retreat and the woman that shared with me about it was like, oh, it's so fun and manifesto's being amazing. Let me tell you all these things. Look

it up for yourself.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so

that softer approach,

and I, I

imagine you all can

resonate with this, with Erin being our teacher

was what I needed.

I couldn't hang

with somebody being like, you're angry all the time.

Even though I was, even though

I have a closed

or repelling aura.

Yeah,

go ahead.

Brandi Healy: I was just gonna

say, it's like the anti

manifester approach is like, let me tell you what to do. as a parent of a manifester, it's like, I, I am like, that doesn't

fly

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly. And I was just like, no, uh,

Brandi Healy: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and just this is not

gonna work.

Don't tell me what to do. Um,

Brandi Healy: yeah.

exactly.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

I've heard that with, um, projectors as well, like people with projectors getting told like, oh, you're just tired all the time. And it's like, that's,

that's

not really like helpful.

Brandi Healy: not helpful.

Kyle Wood: doesn't get you excited about

Brandi Healy: you are like, I know You're like, I know

Kyle Wood: like, well, everyone's tired,

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly. Like duh. Yeah, and it's sometimes the language or the initial shock can be so intense, but then later when you really understand what the words mean.

Kyle Wood: Mm

Jamie Clark: you realize,

oh,

okay. I I use my energy in a different

way than other people.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Brandi Healy: So it's really

cool is to kind of look at your chart and see that you have

a six in your profile, and I'm just really curious to understand like w. When did this kind of shift to place, did it kind of take place around that time where you're moving out of that first phase of the sixth line, you know, and you're still kind of in it into that second phase of the sixth line?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. So, I, I, would say all of this started around 28, 29,

where I was really, you know, I, I had loved improv and I was building that community having so much fun with it and really creatively expressing myself in my late twenties and still at this corporate job. And I was just like, this is not it. This is not right. And when I turned 30, I really, I mean, I burned it down. I really did. I was like, this is not for me. I left, uh, a relationship that was very serious. I started traveling in a camper van. Uh, I was working my corporate job while I was traveling in a camper van. I started going deep into human design and then also into inner child work, and now I teach and coach that and really just spending so much time in nature. I went from, you know, living in a townhouse in a city and working all the time and being at the theater all the time to living in a van in national parks for a year and a half. And all of that happened when I turned 30.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

[00:19:43] What does it mean to head 'on to the roof' with a 6 in your profile?
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Jamie Clark: And so as you know, you know that's that phase of going up onto the roof and really starting to shed things that are not serving you anymore, that are not

working.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Yeah, for sure. And it's like I, you know,

I have a three in

my profile, so I can definitely relate

to kind of that first part of your experience around, you know, kind of trying things right. And doing like, this is what I should be doing, is working in a, you know, more structured environment and ticking the boxes and realizing like this doesn't really work for me. And I don't know how you felt once you kind of got to that place, but was it, did it feel like this is a no-brainer for me to start to shed some of this stuff? Or did it feel challenging like I'm a failure and I'm just like because I have certainly had those times in my life where I look back on really experimental phases and been and In a shadow piece of myself being like, you are such a failure or flaky. 'cause you like tried these things and like chucked 'em instead of being like, okay, cool. Like I tried these things and now I know what I don't want. I.

Jamie Clark: Interesting that you felt that way. And it makes sense, especially with that third line, you know, you, you have this resilience to you and also that fear of failure, that thinking that you're a failure is so reminiscent of the three. So I would say for me, it's hard to answer, but when I was, I. I would say that I had this great life.

I really built, I had great community and great friendships and great relationships and had a lot of fun and was successful in my corporate career. And I mean, building the theater from the ground up and being a part of that is an experience that I absolutely love. I think where I got tripped up is that I was, I was just not, I wanted something more, or something different. And so to me, I was looking around and I was thinking, well, all my friends are getting married and having babies, and I want that one day, and they're in these careers and I want that one day, but this just does not feel like there's something more, there's something different here. And so I, you know, it was definitely tumultuous like burning it all down. But it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I mean, I wouldn't trade that for the world and getting to explore such a beautiful country.

And I'm in the US and so

such a beautiful landscape that people don't

typically talk about when you think about America.

But I got to stay on

wineries and farms and learn

this different way of being that was so different to how I grew up and what I've been used to.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: think

to really

I, and now

I can't imagine doing what I was doing for so long. Because it just

doesn't, I just, it doesn't work

for me.

Kyle Wood: a,

that's a typ. That's a not, I shouldn't say you're not typical. That's a common . Sixth line thing, isn't it? Like thinking back on your twenties and being like, yeah, I would, there's no way I would do that now,

Jamie Clark: yeah,

Brandi Healy: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: yeah,

Kyle Wood: but thank God for all those

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: you have.

So,

Jamie Clark: Definitely

Brandi Healy: and it.

Kyle Wood: uh, I, so I was curious about that anger piece.

[00:23:03] What wisdom can Manifestors find in Anger? A perspective shift.
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Kyle Wood: So now when you notice anger coming up, what does, what does that mean for you?

Because, sorry, from a, I'll share for people for manifesters there. What we call their not self is, is anger. So it can be a bit of a signpost. So that's why I'm asking you that question. , it's for the listeners,

Jamie Clark: You are like, she's clearly an angry person. No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I would say for me, anger has been one of my biggest teachers. So, and historically I was very afraid of anger. Right? It's not safe to be angry. It's not okay to be angry. It's, you know, don't be angry.

Brandi Healy: it is not

feminine to be angry.

Jamie Clark: It is not feminine to be angry, right? And so don't express anger, really be calm. And so for me, and this goes into inner child reparenting and it's, you know, my, I have a great relationship with my parents and we just in general, anger wasn't something that I was like necessarily exposed to a lot as a kid, and I'm so grateful for that. But what I learned was it's not okay to be angry.

Kyle Wood: Mm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: Right, and so, and not

just, not

necessarily for my parents, but just society

in general.

Brandi Healy: Right, right.

Jamie Clark: And so I had a lot of unlearning that I needed to do around anger and raw talks about this from a human design perspective where manifesters are either incredibly angry or they're incredibly repressed.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: so for me, I was definitely in that

repressed category of it's not healthy to have anger.

It's not safe to be angry. You're a woman, don't be shy. All this shit, hope we can curse on here 'cause it's gonna happen.

Brandi Healy: Oh yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. Brandy does it all

Jamie Clark: um Right. And

Kyle's like it's Brandy

Kyle Wood: must be 'cause you don't drink. So that's your vice is like, swear. No, I swear.

Brandi Healy: tr

Truly, truly, I'm like, let me live.

Let me live.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good. And so I just did, and so what

I really

had to learn was that

my anger is safe, and my anger

is something that is showing me that something

is out of

alignment.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: it's interesting because it goes back to performing and it it, you, you know, think about the best movies you've ever seen or the most passionate performers or actors or comedians. They're passionate, they're angry sometimes, and there's, that's such an integral part of the human experience.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so for me, after doing work around this and really feeling into like, how can I feel, how can I have anger in my body and how can I How can I express it so it doesn't keep me stuck?

Kyle Wood: Mm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so

I'd say now, you

know, for so long I was afraid to express anger. But at this point in my life, like I love anger. I don't, there's so many, he, I wanna say that there's so many unhealthy expressions of anger out there that are very, that are, that we've got a whole lot of work to do about that in the world. But for me personally, when I am angry, it's a. Sign that is something off

either with me or with my community, or

there's been something

that is unjust that has happened.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Y

Yeah. And

I find it so useful

to understand that as a parrot of a manifester

instead,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: I notice coming from my 10-year-old, instead of just trying to fix it, it's like really trying to understand like, where are we out of alignment here and How can I help you use that emotion as that signpost to say, like, where can, what's going on here that we can course correct Where I feel like in the past

and, and of course like it's super still super easy to be like, I.

Don't be mad. Let's like repress,

right? It's like now it's not

now it's not a convenient time for your anger in the middle of the grocery store,

You know what I mean?

However, however, and

let me tell you, she was a. Spicy toddler. But as we're getting older, you know, now we're preteen and we're heading into some, you know, some interesting and unique years. It is such a useful piece to have like to have in that, to have that awareness and to say like, okay, like that anger is showing up because something is off for her. And instead of making her wrong for feeling that, like how do I give her safety to express that and. Ways that are not like destructive to like everyone else in her path because that has certainly come up.

It's like when she's pissed, it's like ruckus to everybody else in the house. And so now it's about like, cool, you're allowed to feel your feelings, however we need to help you. Like harness how you're expressing that so that it's not just like You know, shrapnel to everyone else in your wake

Jamie Clark: Right, exactly. Because she's a human in the world and sometimes anger needs a certain outlet and a certain place to be expressed and the show must continue. Right. That's so funny. I love that you're really instilling that in her so early and also like noticing, helping her have that

language. Because I did not understand that.

And my mom is so emotionally intelligent

and I thank God for her every day. And she was so she could hold it and she could, you know, help me. And I was a really spicy, really, really spicy, spicy, spicy little baby, apparently. Allegedly

Brandi Healy: I can word on the street.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: So what are some ways now that you have come, what are some like coping mechanisms that you've come to develop for yourself? It's like when you see that anger show up, like how does that show up for you? Maybe now and like what are some, you know, course correction tools that you have for yourself? For, you know, other

spicy manifesters out there that are like, I just wanna yell at people because that's, I feel like that's the place that my daughter goes to is like, let's turn up the volume to 10

Jamie Clark: I love that. I love that. And you know, it's so funny because the, the tool that I use and the tool that I share and the tool that I teach is the same for all energy types, right? Because you think about the projector experiencing bitterness, man manifesting generators and generators experiencing

frustration, reflectors feeling disappointment, and it all comes back to what you feel in your body.

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so think about, and I'm curious about your experiences as projectors and the feeling of bitterness. When I'm angry, my body has a very specific reaction. It feels big and red, and I'm like, but it's hot. It's, it's intense. It's this big energy. And so for me, the somatic healing side of it, and really, so somatic is of the body, right? Dropping into your body. it's actually feeling the anger on a somatic level. And what I mean by that is taking deep breaths and noticing and describing what's happening in your body rather than using words and verbally, like tearing something or somebody down, right? Because that that's, that's harmful. I'm not here to harm, but I'm also here to express my anger, right? And so giving myself a chance to feel anger on a visceral level and then seeing what's on the other side of it. I'm curious how bitterness shows up for the two of you.

[00:31:06] How does bitterness show up for Projectors?
---

Kyle Wood: me, it's just like, like Ru obviously like ruminating on something a lot, so it'll be like the same stories going on and none. Then part of my design is like, um, that my blame usually goes outwards as well. So usually there's like, there's some kind of blame going with that, although I'll happily put that blame on myself if

there's no one, if there's no one to, uh, put it on externally to me.

Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, so that there tend to be a lot of, like, in my mind, like blaming and, and finger pointing. That comes with like the bitterness of not getting the recognition that I, that I felt like I deserved around this thing. Um, when I can notice that, which like meditating and things like that helps with that, uh, and that actually the meditation thing I'm following at the moment is like doing a lot of like being curious about like when a story comes up, get, be curious about how it feels in your body and welcoming that so that.

Has been really difficult.

just like difficult,

like,

Jamie Clark: challenging.

Kyle Wood: a muscle that I just haven't used. Difficult, like, not like,

oh, this is super

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: to me, but more like, this is just so foreign to how I've been operating for so long. So

Jamie Clark: Yep.

Kyle Wood: that, that's my, my random tangent on, on the bitterness. But yeah, it does tend to be, I've got a very active mind, so it does tend to be like really up in my head lots of like thoughts and stories.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Fascinating that, that's coming up for you right now and thinking, and of course it's a brand new baby muscle,

but it has never been used before. Right. And

I love that analogy because you're

all, you're doing, all you're doing is Strengthening the muscle of feeling what is in your body,

right? It's just like going to the gym

or your, your brain has obviously, and very

clearly had a lot of reps

of teaching you how to do

something and telling you what's happening as compared to building the, building the muscle and building the capacity to say, oh. What do I feel in my body right now who, like nobody asks you that when you're walking down the street,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Right? And so

that's, and so

what's so helpful, and I'll tie

this back to improv and then I wanna hear what Brandy has to say is when you're improvising, right? It's not like I was like, I'm gonna take an improv class, and then I got on stage and made people laugh for an hour and a half.

No, no, no, no, no.

I was playing games and practicing and

making mistakes over and over and over again, and building the muscle of failing, quote unquote,

and just observing what comes outta my mouth. And so through that repetition, I built the muscle and I built the skillset of improvising. so when I first started Somatic experiencing work, the intentional side of intentional improv, I couldn't label my emotions.

I remember the first time a coach told me to do that, and I was like, what do you mean I have to look at my body. And like, what

do you mean? What color is it?

Like you just don't,

we don't understand. But as you

practice it over and over again, you start to become so much more familiar with the sensations in your body.

Brandi Healy: It's so interesting. We had a guest on here, um, a reflector who is a feminine embodiment coach, and I did a session

with her and it was very similar, where she was like, you know, tell me what you're noticing in your body afterwards. Like she was like, you don't understand how. Most of the time when I work with clients, it's so challenging just to get past that first part of what are you feeling in your body?

And it's like at that point I had been a yoga practitioner for like 20 years and like had been teaching for several years.

So again, it was a skill that I had already built, but it was so fascinating to realize like most people don't walk around. Paying attention to what comes up in their physical body. Just like people, oh, some people don't pay attention what's happening in their emotional body

either. So, you know, it can be, they can certainly be blocks either way. And when I, you know, going back to your question around like bitterness, when I think about what does bitterness feel like in my physical body, a lot of the time it's like in my throat, Wow. And

it's like, and I have a defined throat and it's connected to my mind. So it's similar to Kyle. There's a lot of rumination that comes and it's either it cuts my voice off and I completely shut down, or it's like the opposite and it's like verbal diarrhea of like, everyone around me is gonna know like how pissed off and salty I am. Um.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: So it's like, it's v it's very, it shows up very extreme where it's like I just let the discomfort like solidify and get really heavy or it's just like, has to like come out. Yeah. And it's just like really

messy

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Fascinating. And it's so interesting for you to notice that and get curious about it, and I'm curious if that bitterness comes up when you are not speaking your mind or when you feel that people don't understand you.

Brandi Healy: I think it's more so when I don't feel like the in, there's an implicit invitation for me to be able

to share what it is that I see. And so a lot of the work that I've had to do, I think that this is like where I can look to like manifest our strategy and find a lot of learning in terms of like that repellent energy, you know, so to speak of like Looking at an invitation as like that is a protective mechanism. So instead of being pissed off that it's not there, like looking at that as a like, whew, I can save my insight and keep them to myself and not waste them in a space that's, it's not going to be received

Jamie Clark: I love that it's a, it's such a protective mechanism, and waiting for the invitation is not passive either.

Brandi Healy: No, no, and I think that that's, you know, that's certainly something that is like a learning of like in order for people to invite you in, they have to understand. how you can, you know, serve them with your perspective. And I think going back to Kyle's point, it's like, it's definitely a muscle because it's like I, you know, I'm not operating from that place all the time.

Like I'm still like yelling at people that I. You know, and the one that does the most in this house, which is like a hundred percent not true but like, you know, certainly like in, in shadow moments like that can come up, but it's like the like, oh shit. Like reminder to myself of like, you know, are you actually paying attention to, like, who wants to hear what you have to say? Or are you just like. Throwing it out there, just expecting everybody's ready for it. Just like as a manifester, are you just expecting people are ready to be initiated?

Jamie Clark: Yep. Yep. It's a lot of discernment. It's important to have around who we interact with. Mm-Hmm. Kyle, I'm curious if there's anything there for you.

Kyle Wood: Uh, . I mean, I actually when I was waiting 'cause I wanted to ask you about, uh, wanted you to use your skills on me. Uh, 'cause I've got

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: to Cher

and, and

Jamie Clark: Excellent. I was hoping for that.

[00:39:00] Jamie gives Kyle a mini-session live on the podcast
---

Kyle Wood: Yeah. So this came up when, um, before we start the call and so like I can get on this call chat. . You know, it's fine. Everything's fine.

Even in my body now, I'm noticed I'm getting nervous bringing this up. So this would be, you can unpack me,

uh,

Jamie Clark: Take a deep

breath.

Kyle Wood: yeah, I think that's, that can be sometimes part of it. Um, so on. Yeah, this call, fine. You know, if I run workshops, calls for my business, never an issue. Can like that sort of public speaking. I've run like live workshops.

Not really an issue, you know, like there'll be like nerves and excitement beforehand, but get into the groove and it's fine. But man, when, like, forever at my, the fire brigade where I volunteer, if I have to speak, say like last time we had our meeting and I, and there was something I wanted to bring up at the meeting, uh, during general business, so.

that up. It's like as soon as I start speaking, my voice starts like shaking, starts going wobbly. All this emotion comes up like, like I wanna start crying and just like,

and it's like I'm just, frustrating 'cause I'm like, I just wanna just convey what I'm, when, like get across and instead I'm like battling with myself to like hold it together over something that

rationally doesn't feel terribly emotional. Um, but there's this emotion and, and I've noticed, and it's happened for years. I remember like another time, like I received an award and, uh, to get up and say something, and normally that would not be an issue, but in front of that group of people, I think it's the group of people.

Um,

voice started shaking, started getting all emotional ,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Jamie Clark: Totally. So thank you first of all for sharing.

So vulnerably, this is so common, and you know, we don't often see men sharing that piece

where those emotions come up. And

so thank

you one for speaking into that.

Kyle Wood: Well

Jamie Clark: And so,

Kyle Wood: very safe place for me. So

Jamie Clark: yeah. Yeah, of course. And so, and it's still a big deal, right?

And so what I would say, or my

question is if you can take

a deep breath and just put your palms open. And when you think about sharing in front of people at the firehouse, and I imagine that they're typically men, is that right?

I.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah,

man. Mostly old,

Jamie Clark: And so,

Kyle Wood: mostly older than me.

Jamie Clark: yeah,

mostly older than you,

so potentially people that you imagine

are in authority

positions

that you may want to impress.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so really

checking in

of does this energy

feel familiar to childhood?

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: To when you were

sharing,

what was it like for the younger

version of you, little Kyle that's seven or eight years old? Was he afraid to talk in front of people? What was that like? What was his interactions with men?

Kyle Wood: This is gonna sound like I'm, I'm deflecting the question, but it's like I feel like I need to

Jamie Clark: No, no, no.

Kyle Wood: I don't know, nothing's coming up like in the moment. Uh, and

Jamie Clark: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: it's definitely something I could reflect on. Like, I'm not

thinking of a

specific thing, but in

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: speaking. 'cause I'm like, was there like, you know, I think you have male figures like teachers, father.

Grandparent like

Brandi Healy: I am like altar boy. Altar boy,

Kyle.

Kyle Wood: I was very comfortable in that

environment and would've felt comfortable

Jamie Clark: great.

Kyle Wood: talk, talking there. But yeah, like maybe there's something there around like

a teacher or, or like parental sort of figure.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally. And I didn't expect you to have an answer. Right. It's just starting to get curious

around where you learned

that it

wasn't safe to speak up in front

of men that are authority figures

or men that are big that have,

that you wanna

impress,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: you know? And so, and it's and, and, it, right?

And so it's not necessarily,

oh, I have this one memory of when I was seven where dad didn't do blah, blah, blah.

No, no, no. It's more so this, this feeling

over time that you start to acquire or thinking about, okay. In, in high school, what was that like? Like where was the, the gap in learning or what happened where Now I don't feel safe to talk in front of this group of individuals.

Kyle Wood: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause there's definitely a, a thing around

pressing and there's a lot of

Jamie Clark: hmm.

Kyle Wood: experience amongst some of those members. Um, and yeah, there is a, a worry like

I mean, when I'm accepting an award, I'm not really worrying about what I'm saying, but still had the same feeling. But then last night it was like a safety thing. So it's like, you know what, if other people would disagree with me, there's a little bit of that. But yeah, usually

Jamie Clark: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: in myself, I have enough confidence and whenever I fill out one of those tests of like, what?

What's your fear? You know, five greatest fears. Public speaking usually isn't on there. 'cause I'm like, if I can . Get it together, it's fine. But yeah. But there's definitely something in this situation, I think that's why it catches me off guard so much. 'cause I go to just speak and then all of a sudden it's just Like,

Jamie Clark: Like, oh, what's coming

up? What is, and so of course, and so it's noticing, oh, I, there's a piece of me that is afraid that . Someone's gonna question my decision,

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: or there's a piece

of me

that's afraid that they're gonna think I am,

fill in the blank. Dumb or

stupid or not, whatever it is. Dismissed.

Kyle Wood: That's a big fear.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: uh, what are you

talking about? What do you know? Yeah. And I can feel that, yeah. I can feel that coming from like my childhood. I think that's a normal

thing probably lots

of men can,

can associate with.

Jamie Clark: Sure.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. And that's

another big piece of it that so many of

us, I, I operate from the belief that our parents really did the best they could with the tools that they had.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Right. And so through the

work that we do,

our parents aren't on trial

though. Some of them, clients really want them to be, and that's great,

but that's their experience,

you know, and

it's like great, like let's dig into that

because ultimately if you notice that it's something that's holding you back. Or getting in the way of you confidently speaking in those areas. It's a moment for you to check into yourself and say, oh, where did I learn this? That I

wasn't the expert or that I'm, I'm not

that I'm going to

be dismissed if I say what I'm going to

say.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: And then the

last thing that I'll share about that, 'cause I could talk about

it forever.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: Is really

checking in with how your

body feels in those moments, right? And how granular can you get about your experience, even if it's for 10 seconds before you speak, right?

So if it's your turn to say something,

just taking

a deep breath and noticing and

practicing what you're learning in this meditation of, wow, my heart's beating really fast, or. I am, my, my palms are sweaty or my arms are sweaty, or my chest feels hot.

And just breathing into that

over trying to pretend that it's not

there.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I wanna say like that, the idea of doing that feels scary because there is

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: a lot of emotion there and

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: like acknowledging that and feeling into that feels.

Scary in the moment because it's like, what if it, what if I can't control this emotion?

Uh,

Brandi Healy: For sure.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Jamie Clark: yep.

Do you feel it in your body right now?

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yeah. A little bit. Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Okay, so let's take just a couple minutes.

Kyle Wood: Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. So take a breath, close your eyes. That feels good. Just notice what's happening in your body. Can you describe where the sensation is?

Kyle Wood: Uh, my chest, like my solar plexus.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, so just bringing all of your attention to that solar plexus just trusting whatever comes up, comes up. So it's in your solar plexus, in your chest. Is it tight or open?

Kyle Wood: Uh, there's like, uh, pressure and then kind of, you know, like in the nervousness. So like a,

like almost like a feeling of instability.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally. So it's tight and in instability. Is it? Is it kind of moving around?

Kyle Wood: Yeah, yeah,

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So just breathing into that. Does it have a temperature?

Kyle Wood: Uh

hmm.

Cold, I would say.

Jamie Clark: Cool. So just

noticing that there's a tightness,

an instability in your chest, that's cool. Remember, there's nothing to change or fix about the sensation's, just being with it. And getting curious about it. Would you describe it in any other way? Like its texture or its color?

Kyle Wood: It's hard for me to, it is, like you said about the color stuff. It's hard to

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: that way when I

Jamie Clark: Great.

Kyle Wood: No

Jamie Clark: Awesome. Per

Kyle Wood: was green and spiky. That's just what popped into my head. So.

Jamie Clark: Amazing. So let's just go with green and spiky. Right? So this is very new. You're doing great. So just breathing into this space, we're not doing anything with it. We're not trying to fix it or change it. All you're doing is just acknowledging that it's there. And so what we'll do now is take three deep breaths into it, just sending all of your attention there. Again, noticing that this comes up. Sometimes in your body when it's time to speak in front of other people and checking in and just trusting whatever comes up. Does this part have anything to tell you or anything that it wants to say? And if not, that's okay. I.

Kyle Wood: It just feels like there's some unprocessed emotions there. Like, I need to watch a

sad movie or something , you know,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: have a good cry. Like I need, I need an emotional release, which definitely doesn't feel safe to do in

in the middle of a fire brigade meeting, but

Jamie Clark: Podcast.

Right,

Kyle Wood: or on

Jamie Clark: right. But like.

Kyle Wood: And then that,

Jamie Clark: but you see,

Kyle Wood: Yeah. So 'cause I'm not accepting, I am then really rejecting it.

Jamie Clark: yeah. So you did beautifully.

yeah, I'm curious how you feel now.

Kyle Wood: Good. Like karma, like it's still there,

Jamie Clark: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: but um,

feels less overwhelming. It's probably the, the,

thing.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Awesome.

Brandi Healy: Does it feel like less threatening?

Kyle Wood: practice.

Maybe that's the thing. Less threatening. Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. and I love that note. Thank you so much for your vulnerability with that, but giving yourself that permission outside of the firehouse to really sit with that part of you,

right? And just

get to know it

and get curious about it, and

start to communicate with it

Kyle Wood: yep.

Jamie Clark: of, okay, this shows up and it's neither good nor

bad. If I like, it's, I mean, and I feel these emotions every time I used to get on stage, but I, it was holding me back and so when I showed up, I wasn't calm or present or grounded or people weren't listening to me,

but it's just letting your body know that it's

safe

to do the things that you

want to do.

Kyle Wood: Hmm. it's a weird defense mechanism that's going on. Another, like I get you actually said it limitations. So it's a, like, I think it makes me think of that, you know, the big leap, how they talk, like the upper eliminating beliefs, um, al

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: U-L-P-I-N-G

ing

Um,

Jamie Clark: I'll have to look it

up.

Kyle Wood: yeah. Uh, no, it's a, yeah, it's a great book.

Um, the Big Leap. It's, yeah, it's all about like how we, we will tend to sabotage in certain areas of our lives when other areas going well. 'cause we've got these, we are hitting, we, we are hitting up against these limitations of what we think

that area of our life, um, looks like.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. And that's all limitations are

Kyle Wood: Yeah. And even

Jamie Clark: it's just . an, it's.

Kyle Wood: Noticing the limitation, not doing anything about it. I remember after reading the book was like really helpful. Just be like, oh, that's an area where I might be doing that, and not trying to fix anything

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: anything, but just

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: who knew? The power of noticing would be so powerful.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Yeah.

Truly.

Jamie Clark: Just acknowledging it and noticing it, letting it be there, and that, and when we think about public speaking or using your voice, that's often, you know, where we want to go. Often it starts with sharing your authentic truth

and sharing how you feel about something

or what you

wanna do. And if

it's just noticing how unsafe people feel to do that

or how scared people are.

Kyle Wood: Yep,

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: Yep, Yeah, I could see how that played into it too, because, you know, accepting an award and expressing to the brigade, what it meant to me was . Felt very vulnerable. And then again,

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: last night speaking up about something that I think safety wise we could be doing better. And again, there was that like element of this is something that I think is important and

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: worrying that other people.

Yeah, that was really helpful. Thank you, Jamie.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. You're welcome.

Kyle Wood: Um,

Jamie Clark: you.

Brandi Healy: cool to watch.

Kyle Wood: So now I want to know,

now you've given everyone a, a, a demo without meaning to

So what,

Brandi Healy: Yeah, a little, a

Kyle Wood: bit about how you are, how you're helping people with this at the moment. Like

[00:55:11] How to find out more about Jamie and/or work with her
---

Kyle Wood: what, do you work with people? One-on-One or in a group, or do you have, do you have a blog or, I know you use TikTok a bit, like tell us a bit.

Jamie Clark: So I run a group program.

Uh, where we really dig into this

stuff, we

really feel into

our experience of what it's like to share ourselves with the world, whether that be on stages, literal public speaking, or on social media. I. Or in office buildings and, you know, in, in our careers. And so I run a program around that, that's a group program. We're wrapping up our first cohort right now. It's been absolutely incredible. Uh, I also run retreats. I'm headed down to California in just a little bit to run a transformational retreat. Uh, the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn.

Kyle Wood: Oh.

Jamie Clark: Which most people

say,

wow, that is boring

It's not. It

is not. I promise it's not boring.

I it's

Brandi Healy: gotten pretty.

Jamie Clark: as,

Kyle Wood: same. Our reflector was on LinkedIn

Brandi Healy: Yeah, it's. It's gotten pretty spicy and like,

especially post pandemic. It's so,

you know, you're not the first, you're not the first.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's, I mean, that's where my people are. I was in corporate

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: long time and I really witnessed so many women, especially not use their voice in their corporate roles or in their

corporate settings or in their businesses, and so.

and I work with creatives and

artists and people that are really looking to spread their message in a bigger way.

And what's holding them back is the fear. They're like, oh, I don't wanna show my emotion.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: So that's the best place to find me.

I take on, um,

very

very small number of one-on-one clients,

um, has to really be the right fit.

I truly believe that we heal and

we

transform best in a group

setting.

Kyle Wood: Yep.

Jamie Clark: Right. So think

about how vulnerable you were on here and

how much that opens the space for other people.

What I've noticed in my group

programs

is, and I've been coaching

for years, uh, with another organization, is the more vulnerable one person is, the more vulnerable everybody else is. And so it opens the space and it opens the container to really express what it is that you truly feel,

um, and

be supported in it.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and move through it.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. Yeah, I, I definitely prefer like group containers for that reason, because

it's, some days you're not feeling it, but then yeah, someone else will say something or open up and then, you know, it cracks you open a bit, so, um, yeah.

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: Awesome.

Jamie Clark: yeah.

And then the other half of what I do

too. oh, real quick is that's okay.

Is the improv side of it.

Right,

and so that's we, we do

a lot of

improv in my group containers.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: So really, and people

are scared,

but it's so much fun.

And every time I do improv at a retreat, uh, I, I host and co-lead transformational healing retreats.

And, you know, you have 30 people in the room and 28 of them are terrified to improvise. But then you come out of the. Experience laughing and loving it and just being open, and it's, it's a way for you to express too. So anyone that's listening, I would absolutely recommend taking an improv class in your area if you're looking to expand, uh, yourself and your communication.

Kyle Wood: Awesome. I'll have to see if there's any down

here.

Brandi Healy: so good. Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Maybe I'll come to Australia

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: 2025. We'll see.

Kyle Wood: Yep. Ship your, ship your van over.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Gee, a very trip.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Thank you Jamie. Really?

Brandi Healy: good. Jamie, I.

Kyle Wood: Yeah, just awesome catching up with you and, um, hearing what you're up to and really excited for this work and yeah, and I always get a lot out of the conversations we have. Always really appreciate your insights.

Uh, so yeah, thanks

Jamie Clark: I appreciate that.

Kyle Wood: a little mini session with me then as well.

Jamie Clark: Yeah. Anytime. Kyle Brandy, this is so fun. Thank you.

Brandi Healy: Our pleasure. Thank you.

Kyle Wood: All right. Fail. Well, everyone.